Maps, Directions, and Place Reviews
Improving taijiquan lineage trees
Please assist by weighing in on the new proposed lineage trees. I'm in need of assistance with gathering information on the lineages and constructive feedback.
- Talk:T'ai chi ch'uan#Styles / Lineage_Table
- Talk:Chen-style t'ai_chi ch'uan#Improving lineage trees
- Talk:Yang-style t'ai chi ch'uan#Improving lineage trees
- Talk:Wu (Hao)-style t'ai chi ch'uan#Improving lineage trees
- Talk:Wu-style t'ai chi ch'uan#Improving lineage trees
- Talk:Sun-style t'ai chi ch'uan#Improving lineage trees
I will add the links to the trees for the remaining styles as I build them. Thanks. InferKNOX (talk) 19:17, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
Chloe Bruce Karate Video
Do world records confer notability?
I've come across articles on several martial artists (Mak Yuree and Chloe Bruce (martial artist)) whose sole claim to notability seems to be that they hold a world record. This would seem to be sufficient to show notability, but world records are so often for obscure things that I'm not convinced. For example, Bruce's record is for the number of kicks in a minute but the video shows little "tappy" kicks with minimal leg movement--totally poor form and useless for fighting. Yuree's records are for shin-kicking baseball bats. I'm interested in the opinion of others. Papaursa (talk) 17:31, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
Recreating a deleted article
I was considering creating an article this morning on the book Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere, however I noticed that an article on the topic was deleted a year or two ago per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere: An Illustrated Introduction. I think it could merit revisiting; several sources are available ([1][2][3][4][5][6][7] are a few examples) which evidence its importance as a text on aikido. It can certainly be shown to pass criteria 1 and 3 of WP:NBOOK. The deleting admin (User:Cirt) suggested I raise this with the relevent WikiProjects, thus, here I am. Any objections to the article reappearing? Yunshui ??? 13:57, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
Sockpuppet investigations (again)
Several of our regular editors are being investigated: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Papaursa, Astudent0 and Mdtemp. I do not believe them to be sock puppets. jmcw (talk) 09:58, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
We could just ask them. The last comment on timing (ie. different names for when at school/work) seems interesting. For the record I never got the impression that they were sock-puppets either.Peter Rehse (talk) 02:55, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
Correlation does not imply causality comes to mind. Janggeom (talk) 15:39, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
It's his school boyish charm.Peter Rehse (talk) 00:03, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
It was found from a check user that all 3 accounts are from the same city and all 3 accounts edit and reply to a staggering amount of the same articles. That is no coincidence. I don't know if you guys are sockpuppets or something else, but the 3 accounts are not completely independent of each other. The admin ruled that only 1 of those accounts can count for a vote in an AFD... if all 3 vote in an AFD discussion, they will be simply counted as 1 vote. Gamezero05 19:26, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
I think in these repeated sock-puppet accusations, we should consider issues of bullying: "Bullying is characterized by an individual behaving in a certain way to gain power over another person". jmcw (talk) 23:49, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
Junior Dos Santos
Junior Dos Santos' page has Jon Jones' mixed martial arts record!! Please correct! -- Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.37.254.173 (talk) 05:17, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
Taekwondo Promotion Foundation
I would appreciate opinions on Taekwondo Promotion Foundation. jmcw (talk) 12:36, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
I think it is relevant and notable. THe Taekwando organization for every country is not notable but for the country of origin (ie. Korea) yes. If they are building a large training centre than it should be incorporated into the article.Peter Rehse (talk) 13:01, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
The subject does seem notable, although my initial thought was to consider WP:CRYSTAL. When translated from Korean, the article's creator's user name is synonymous with the subject, and so would appear to contravene WP:CORPNAME and might be a concern with regard to WP:COI; I have notified the contributor. Janggeom (talk) 14:07, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
As it is currently written I don't see any independent reliable sources for the foundation. I also don't think planning to build a park shows notability (crystalball, at least). I'm not even sure that a completed training center shows notability. Just a voice from the dark side. Papaursa (talk) 22:09, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
Keysi Fighting Method
I just came across this article and it seems to lack independent sources (except for the Batman Begins connection). I was thinking of merging it into the Batman Begins article, but I see that was already tried and reverted. I think it's notability is dubious without the connection to the Batman films. I think there are enough passing mentions of it that it shouldn't be deleted, but it doesn't really seem to warrant an individual article either. I was wondering what others thought. Papaursa (talk) 14:44, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
Higa Yuchoku
This article needs some good independent sources and I've having trouble finding them. I'd also appreciate any comments on his notability. Papaursa (talk) 18:12, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
Cheongye Kwan
I feel I am being a bit too hasty on this one but both it and Mankwondo seem cut from the same promotional cloth. There is also a page for the Cheongye Kwan founder which is pretty self serving.Peter Rehse (talk) 13:13, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
To keep the issues clear, the problem with all three articles is that although there are many references, there are not enough Wikipedia:Reliable sources to establish the Wikipedia:Notability of these articles.jmcw (talk) 11:20, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
Regardless of months of work and effort and constant fixing and re fixing with help from numerous admins and helpers, I feel I am fighting a losing battle that is frankly a little insulting. Barry Cook is a world renowned Martial Arts Master and founder of arguably one of the best Martial Arts systems to have been developed in the past 10 years. And to have to keep justifying him and coming up with more and more refs is simply an exercise in fruitless nonsense. By all means remove BOTH (not 3?) articles (Barry Cook) and (Cheongye Kwan) because I am at a lose. hjc2012
The third article is a very similar 'new style' not the two you were editing. The references you have either don't mention either Barry Cook or Cheongye Kwan or are his own web sites. There are really no reliable third party sources. An AfD debate won't hurt - it gets a broader opinion and is decided on by an administrator. You are actually been given a chance to understand the problem and fix it before the AfD starts. If your opinion about Barry Cook is correct one would think there would be something more out there.Peter Rehse (talk) 11:55, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
- The Cheongye Kwan article was previously deleted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cheongye Kwan. In response to a message from Hjc2012, and given that person's posting here, I suggested this was the proper forum for the discussion of the art and founder. Papaursa (talk) 21:50, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
You can clearly see from the references given, that both Barry Cook and his Martial Arts system The Cheongye Kwan are both mentioned on 2 of the largest online Martial Arts Websites (far exceeding any paperback publication) called Worldwide Dojo, and Fightcon. Master Dana Stamos is the worlds leading author and CEO of the Martial Arts entertainment network, and has both written articles on Barry Cook and interviewed him personally. Their is also a reference on Master Christopher Davies's website (BTA Taekwondo National Governing Body) which refers to Cooks membership and Martial Arts Hall of Fame induction. hjc2012 -- Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.22.243.160 (talk) 07:26, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
My feeling is that the best situation is to merge the Cheongye Kwan article with Barry Cook. The former is just one school (I would like to think that the 7 people shown at their home page is not the sum total of the students). Barry Cook has enough references I think to confer at least marginal notability. the marginal is just my opinion but it still is more than many other Biographies. I really wish the page would read less like a vanity page (advert) but that is another issue. I would also like to state the total lack of value of Hall of Fame or World Soke Council or any web based self congratulatory organizations as a reliable secondary reference over and above the reason Blogs are not considered references. Any comments before I start the AfD debate for Cheongye Kwan.Peter Rehse (talk) 03:23, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
While working on Barry Cook on IRC prompted by a request, I reformatted it more in keeping with the Manual of Style, getting so far as re-anchoring a reference bio. Upon getting to the World Wide Dojo bio, however, I found whole paragraphs copy-pasted into the article. The requestor stated they had permission, and it is also hosted on one of the included self-published sources. As a copyright concern, I have reported it here. I do not consider it unambiguous, as we cannot determine primacy, and it is hosted on a self-published reference asserting copyright, but also hosted at the 3rd party website asserting copyright. If 3rd party came first, our inclusion of such large portions in the article is a copyvio. If self-published came first, then World Wide Dojo merely republished a furnished bio, in which case the coverage does not count toward notability. I have ceased working on the article and will abstain from any further discussion, including AfD/Cheongye Kwan, except admins and editors who process copyright issues. My intent at the article had been to reference the biographic details to 3rd party sources and remove the COI tag. The next editor removed the picture with the Dalai Lama as 'showing nothing', in my opinion erroneously, because it verified a fact, even if trivial. A second editor, citing an IRC conversation with the article creator/primary editor, removed the COI tag. Dru of Id (talk) 23:38, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
Please inspect the Barry Cook references. Most are quite unsatisfactory, and I really don't see the article passing GNG. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 09:16, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
Well the author userfied the page which under the circumstance is understandable. I do note that this is the third AfD debate with the first one for deletion, the second one escaped deletion due to userfication (which was noted to be unusual), and it looks like the same will happen here again. Essentially the same article trying to do an end run around AfD.Peter Rehse (talk) 09:17, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
Moo Duk Kwan
This page appears to have copyright violations deep in its history and may soon be deleted. Perhaps someone from this project can sort out this issue. Rmhermen (talk) 04:24, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
I actually tried to sort out the problem with this and related pages (see Moo Duk Kwan Taekwondo, Tang Soo Do (was flagged for copvio but apparently I was wrong) and Hwang Kee (flagged for copyvio also). There were some name changes that appear to have major importance to some people resulting in hugely complicated pages with tons of overlap. I ended up flagging the copyvio (which it is) on the hope that a new version would be more clear and original.Peter Rehse (talk) 04:47, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Goshin-Ryu Kempo
I tried PRODing this and failing that submitting it to AfD but apparently that route isn't allowed for Redirects. I have submitted it to Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion.Peter Rehse (talk) 12:59, 4 July 2012 (UTC)\
Living National Treasures for martial arts
From the looks of things, martial arts seems to be included in who has been awarded Living National Treasure status, however our Living National Treasures of Japan article doesn't mention it. Is martial arts included? If so, is there a list somewhere (it's probably in Japanese) of the current Living National Treasures for martial arts?
And if martial arts isn't included, can someone still link me to whatever is the official Japanese list of current living national treasures? Likely on some sort of government site. SilverserenC 23:22, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
Monkey kung fu
Article on Monkey kung fu appears heavily vandalized over a period of time. I don't have time to go through the edit history carefully, so hopefully people here can do something. --67.164.215.34 (talk) 18:01, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
WP Martial Arts in the Signpost
The WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Martial Arts for a Signpost article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Multiple editors will have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions, so be sure to sign your answers. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Have a great day. -Mabeenot (talk) 01:08, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
AfC someone might wan to take a look at
Hi folks. There is an article here for a Muay Thai fighter and it's been declined a few times for notability. Perhaps someone with a bit more knowledge about martial arts will have some feedback for the editor or want to accept/decline the article. Thanks! SarahStierch (talk) 21:45, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
World Champion with references - that's better than many out there. His name shows up in other articles usually beating that person. In the Kevin Ross (kickboxer) article they actually refer to the title win. This should be in there with no problem. I moved it into article space.Peter Rehse (talk) 23:31, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
Archery bowsports/disciplines
Can someone add the archery/bow based martial arts, and those with it as a component, and their bows, to {{archery}} ? It seems only one Korean bow is being listed -- 76.65.131.160 (talk) 18:51, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu same or different than BJJ?
I just wanted to check in and see if there was any consensus or standing on whether 10th Planet JJ was simply a style of and/or school of BJJ or whether it should be viewed as a separate art entirely. I agree with the 10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu article which states in the intro that it's a "non-traditional style of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu" and not a separate art but I wanted to make sure that I was correct in my assumption as this issue continues to arise in edits trying to draw a bright-line distinction. Thank you for any input. Buddy23Lee (talk) 21:41, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Merge of techniques
I started a debate about whether List of shotokan techniques should be merged into Shotokan to give your opinion please go the respective talk page. Dwanyewest (talk) 22:45, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
Fictional martial artists
There is what I consider a recurring problem--fictional martial artists becoming part of this project. They come from books, movies, and anime. When we were doing the martial arts article review a few years ago there was a consensus that fiction didn't belong as part of the project. Changes were made then and it's come up several times since then (including now). I'll admit I've forgotten how to fix this, so I'd appreciate a reminder. Assuming, of course, that consensus hasn't changed. Papaursa (talk) 18:14, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
Feel free to add comments at User_talk:Niemti#Fact_and_fiction_categories. jmcw (talk) 14:06, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
File:BruceLee1971.jpg
File:BruceLee1971.jpg is up for deletion. It is a screenshot of Bruce Lee in his only television interview, for The Pierre Berton Show. -- 76.65.131.248 (talk) 19:39, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
A 'fake' martial art (invented with fictional lineage etc atrributed)
I have (probably very badly and inappropriately) edited Mushindo Kempo and removed other references to Terry (Terence) Dukes, the self-proclaimed Shifu Nagaboshi Tomio. I studied with him in the 90s and soon after he was at the centre of abuse allegations and the whole machinery of the fraud fell apart. This has been well documented and evidenced in the links below, despite Terry Dukes (now deceased) and others fighting a strong battle to try to argue that it was all true. I am deeply concerned that - without any reference even to the debate - Mushindo Kempo was listed as part of this project and therefore as a legitimate martial art. I understand that when a small group of people are willing to post a great deal of 'confirmatory' sources and attack those who criticise, sticking to the truth can be difficult but it is not hard to find these good, well-evidenced sources (there were more in recent years but they have dropped off the web now). I hope that I have not done more harm than good by my ham-fisted attempt to make things right; your project seems to be a truly admirable one and I hope that through your proper processes, you can agree that Mushino Kempo and Terry Dukes have no place as a legitimate subject, but perhaps only as a footnote on self-invented martial arts (and the challenges of verification and counter-claim).
http://www.uechi-ryu.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4847 http://www.amazon.com/The-Bodhisattva-Warriors-Philosophy-Symbolism/product-reviews/0877287856/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#RS4UFMATGPAYA http://www.amazon.com/The-Bodhisattva-Warriors-Philosophy-Symbolism/product-reviews/0877287856/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#RRC4XR5I0WYTF http://www.cheirology.net/cheirologicalsociety/index.htm -- Preceding unsigned comment added by Wushinbo (talk o contribs) 17:48, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
Talk:Nestor Capoeira
Subject pasted his own webpage, but appears notable. Anyone want to rescue? In ictu oculi (talk) 14:49, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks. What about Volam Vietnam. Can find no trace in English, only the school's Twitter page. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:04, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
Source of the article : Wikipedia
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